Techie Help Needed Please

[Alison Wright Profile]

Just had an email from OH tonight saying that our 5/6yr old video tape recorder will be obsolete after our final switchover this Wednesday coming, & suggesting I buy this http://www.tesco.com/direct/tvonics-hv2 ... d=207-0426 if I want to continue recording TV programmes.

While I've always been absolutely fine programming new TV's & videos recorders even before auto-tune was invented - I'm a complete technophobe with modern gear like mobile phones & cameras.

So, just wondering, before I buy this recorder, is there any kind of add-on I can get that will update our present one? If not - how easy/difficult are these new digital jobbies to set up?

Any help/advice much appreciated

[jeral Profile]

Hi Alison Wright.

I'm not a techie (believe me, I'm not!). However if you are going for a replacement gadget that should last you ages, best to know what's out there. Humax is a very good name and here's one as shown via John Lewis @ £259: http://www.johnlewis.com/231674495/Product.aspx (Shop around but they're all pretty much price matched).

I have a similar but earlier model (not HDMI, no USB or TV iPlayer-style option) but does have output jacks for stereo system (which I use). So what are the differences? I guess you need to do tabulated columns and decide what you want.

The Tesco box at the price would certainly "do" - the question is whether if you paid more you could have more, so depends what you want.

As to plug and play - I'd say Yes, very simple - whichever box. However, it seems that they don't respond quickly when you first switch on as they are updating programme info to the hard disc etc. So don't panic - be patient until it springs to life (or go make the proverbial cup of tea) and don't fiddle as you'll interrupt the boot-up process.

Hope this helps.

PS: I recall (before I chucked my VCR out) that it is (was?) possible to get some sort of coax connection plus tune the video to the "right" channel on a digital box, but would be limited to recording and watching only that one at the same time. VCRs will still play old tapes by the way, or tapes can be converted to digital (CDs).

[Alison Wright Profile]

Hi Jeral,

You're obviously more techie than me, as I don't understand what all the terminology & abbreviations are - coax connection - RF loop - ethernet connection ???? and what is an HDMI cable needed for????

We already have a stereo system & DVD player, so basically all we need is something to record any TV channel (inc Freeview)

There are no TVonics available in this area as it's our final switchover on Wed, even the huge Tesco Extra only had one cheap 'n' nasty Bush recorder in stock! However I've found this one about 20miles away which has some good reviews. I'd welcome any thoughts/opinions.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/p ... nformation

[jeral Profile]

Hi Alison Wright. I've had a look at that Sony SVR-HDT500 linked and it looks OK to me (i.e. has as many features as one might expect). Reviews seem positive, but it's hard to know if they are independent or if bad reviews are not shown.

I'll call such tuner boxes "DTR" (Digital tuner recorder) so you'll know which "box" I'm referring to.

One thing I'd immediately question are the so-called "essential extras", i.e. cables and 3-yr insurance as shown by Argos. First, the Sony DTR comes with an HDMI cable; mine also came with a short RF loop cable that ties the twin aspect of having two inbuilt tuners together (so both ends sit in the back of the DTR) and also allows sound to come out of the DTR (RF standing for radio frequency). I'd be surprised if the Sony DTR doesn't come with a short RF loop cable also if it needs one.

The HDMI (high definition media interface) cable has sockets either end - one for the DTR, the other for a TV supporting HD. My TV isn't HD so has a scart socket at the back. If your TV only has a scart socket, you might need to buy a scart lead if the Sony comes with only an HDMI lead and you don't have an HD TV. I don't know why anyone would need two HDMI leads.

You'll only need an ethernet cable if you want to connect the internet to your TV via the DTR. I assume one end goes in the DTR and the other goes in your internet modem box. My modem box only has one ethernet port (i.e. socket) so if I want internet on the computer and for the TV at the same time, I don't see how or if it's even possible - you need someone more techie than me.

Anyway, the point is don't buy extra cables until you know what you need and then don't pay Argos prices for them! The reason they make much about having the ends gold plated is that nickel ones can either rust in or slip out, though some say it makes little difference. There are also reviews about expensive versus cheap cables - very inconclusive but it seems that you don't get a huge advantage from paying up to four times as much for a cable.

Coax = coaxial, an insulated cable. Insulated in this sense means that from interference e.g. from any other electrical appliances you might have running (whatever they might be, e.g. a fridge), or other parts of your DTR/TV/Stero connections. Most cables are insulated.

Anyway on quality, some older DTRs were very bad in that the picture could jump a lot (as if being buffered all the time) and same with the sound, which is really why I wondered at the cheap £80 Tesco one, i.e. in case you get what you pay for given most quality twin-tuner DTRs are around £200 or more.

Not sure about the so-called essential 3-yr insurance. There were reports by some a few years ago that an earlier Thompson DTR would "magically" break down at 13 mths (so one month out of guarantee) but perhaps they'd all bought a "bad batch" as a DTR should go on way longer than a year.

Some people complain about the style (i.e. button layout) on some remote controls, but I'd say that if it's a good DTR, I'll live with the remote, lol.

There are other features that vary, like whether one can remove unwanted channels from the EPG (electronic programme guide), so reducing the list visible to a My Favourites list. Can't on mine, but doesn't bother me too much as I've learned favourite channel numbers by heart to avoid scrolling through e.g. loads of adult channels that I can't get rid of. Fast forward - mine will (like an old tape recorder) but I can't "leap" to a desired point, so can be eye-straining as watching flashing images go by.

Most expensive boxes have "record series" option (not sure about cheaper ones) and will also try to resolve any record conflicts. So, if you were to try to record three programmes at once (which twin tuners can't do), it will intelligently find a +l (if available) for the third. By no means foolproof, and sometimes recordings are just "failed" though no-one seems to know why this happens occasionally. In theory, a "good" DTR should be better than a cheaper one.

Have I missed anything? That's all I can think of for now.

PS I did forget one thing (probably at least, lol): The power usage when on standby. Old DTRs on standby weren't that different from when fully on (£s ouch) whilst newer boxes (and most what I call "good" ones) are quite low (i.e. much reduced from when on full). Why important? Because a DTR will record overnight programmes you've asked it to (even though TV turned off); also that peeps don't always turn things off at the plug (main wall socket). I can't see the standby wattage used by the cheaper Tesco box so just saying that it's another thing to add to your decision list.

[Alison Wright Profile]

Thankyou jeral,

Quite a lot for a bit of a numpty to take in!

The TV came as "HD Ready Digital LCD TV with built-in DVD Player" There is a scart socket at the back.

Where did you see the 'essential' 3 year insurance? I can't find that on the link!

The Sony does come with an RF Loop.

I'm not bothered about the ethernet at the moment.

I'll just be happy if I can get all the plugs in the right places - get it up & running & recording.

TBH, it never even occurred to me that the old video recorder would be obsolete after the switchover, but if I find out that OH knew before he went away - there'll be trouble at mill when he gets home!

[jeral Profile]

Hi again. The 3-yr insurance was on the Argos link for the Sony as an "essential extra".

I've worked out why one might need an extra HDMI lead - it's the one used for Blu-ray players and other things like Xbox, which is probably why two or more ports are offered on current DTRs.

If your TV is HD-ready, it should have an HDMI port, or even a DVI port (which I gather is the same but doesn't transmit sound, but brain hurting on that). Are you absolutely sure there isn't an HDMI port under a flap or something on your TV? It looks similar to scart but about half the width.

HD-ready TVs don't work as High Definition unless the HD signal comes through an HD-supported DTR, so if you want to watch in HD then the DTR you buy must support HD. Most do (even cheaper ones) so shouldn't be an issue.

I don't get why your TV only has a scart port if HD-ready. That said, the DTR should work with a scart lead connection, including all its functions, so perfectly fine except that you won't get HD (high definition) through a scart lead.

As I said earlier, I don't know if your SVCR is obsolete (Edit Doh! SVHS)- that's something you'll have to check for yourself. I doubt I'd have been happy with just the SVHS given that I'd miss out on things like pausing live TV etc that you get with a DTR.

Set up of a DTR is really not difficult (done it). I'm an "instruction reader" - my son would do it in 10 minutes flat

[Alison Wright Profile]

Thanks Jeral,

Just had a look at the manual. It reads there is a - HDMI "jack" I had to lie on the floor with a torch to find it hidden under a sticky-out shelf! assuming that's the same as a HDMI "port"?

So assuming the Sony comes with an HDMI cable - I don't need to buy another - or any other sort of cable to get it up & running?

[jeral Profile]

Hi again. Yey! Found HDMI jack/port

I don't think you need any other cables than those supplied, i.e. HDMI and RF loop (and it will of course come with a main power cable).

HDMI jacks/ports are a standard size. So the supplied lead should be fine to attach the DTR and TV. If the lead doesn't seem to fit, make sure it's not upside down.

So, no, don't buy more cables as all needed should be supplied.

I would add that, depending on where you want to put the DTR (i.e. your shelf arrangement proximate to the TV), it's vaguely possible that the supplied HDMI lead might not be long enough. If that does turn out to be the case, then longer leads are available.

Right-angle HDMI cable leads are available too - meaning that the lead in effect comes out sideways from the jack/port, instead of sticking out in the direction of the jack/port, which might be a thought if your jack/port is in a weird place, but that is a possible future buy once you've got the DTR up and running. I.e. a right angle cable connector might be more convenient for your chosen position for the equipment but does exactly the same job as the supplied cable will do.

Good luck tomorrow. Digital changeover felt a bit like Domesday looming to me - I needn't have worried and nor should you

[jeral Profile]

Just a last minute thought.

I assume you have a free main power socket? I'm sure you already run things off multi-plug extension leads from one wall socket, but if you don't have a spare "seat" in the extension lead, then a "six" multiple socket extension lead could help if you have already filled up a "four" one with existing equipment. The surge-protected sort is best, given that a DTR has a hard drive. A switched surge-protected one is even better, as you can switch everything off all at once if you wish and good if your main wall socket is hidden (inaccessible easily).

Sorry to rabbit on. I just had this awful thought that you could be ready to go and had nowhere to plug the DTR into, doh!

[Alison Wright Profile]

Thanks again Jeral,

Well things seem to be looking up at last. I feel a lot more positive about setting it up now. If the HDMI lead is a metre long it will be ample - I'll ask to check it in-store beforehand.

Good luck tomorrow. Digital changeover felt a bit like Domesday looming to me - I needn't have worried and nor should you

I've reserved the only one available Sony box online & have to pay & collect before 5pm tomorrow - the problem is to get there requires a trip on the A1 & parts of it in Nth Yorks were closed today because of the flooding - we've had gales & nonstop 'sideways' rain since Saturday night. So will check the weather reports before I set off. Hopefully I can get to pick it up, & by this time tomorrow night I'll be on my way to be up & running.

I've cancelled travelling oop north to my Mum's to retune her TV's tomorrow - fortunately I've managed to arrange for a neighbour to do it.

PS: thanks - but no probs with the main power sockets.

[jeral Profile]

Best wishes for the drive tomorrow weatherwise, hug.

You could ask about the internet connectivity whilst you're there, meaning the ethernet socket your Sony DTR has. I'm a blank on that and I know you said you weren't worried about internet connectivity for now, but you might as well ask whilst you're there...

[Alison Wright Profile]

Evening Jerel, nothing to report as yet. Friends offered to pick it up for me as they were out that way shopping - & they've just dropped it off.

I'll update as & when.

[jeral Profile]

Hi. If you set your DTR up before the digital switchover, usually dead on midnight, you'll need to retune it after. If rigged up after, it should automatically find the new digital channels. You'll need to retune again probably in three weeks as going digital is a two phase operation.

I'll watch out for you tomorrow. Night night.

[Alison Wright Profile]

I was away yesterday & all last night, got home this afternoon ready to set it up.

The instructions in the manual were far from clear - in fact so vague, I only could sort out the leads/cables simply by poking them in the holes where they fitted best Switched on & nothing! Checked the manual again which said "Switch the input selector on your TV so that the signal from the recorder appears on your TV screen" There was no reference in the TV manual as to what an input selector was - so had to phone the TV's technical support line who said to press the function button & clicking on HDMI - sorted!

I got into the recorders 'system menu' & had a look around & pressed '16:9 ' for widescreen & it automatically started a full retune which I saved.

Then clicked the 'system menu' again & nothing happened - in fact none of the buttons would work at all.

Rang Sony tech support - & after 19mins on hold waiting to speak to someone - she told me to switch off at the mains a few times- but it had no effect. She went away to ask someone - came back & said return it to the shop for a replacement - a 29min phone call!

So rang Argos helpline & explained - they were very nice & said yes a replacement will be made, but the branch it came from had none in stock -in fact none of the local branches had any (probably because it was our final switchover on Wed & hordes of folk were buying new recorders) Eventually they found one in a branch a fair old distance away from where I live & have reserved it for me. I asked if it could be transferred so I could collect it at my local branch - but not possible!

I've lost almost five hours out of my life this afternoon with nothing to show for it - expensive phone calls & a lengthy journey to look forward to tomorrow - not!

Up to now - the only positive thing the digi switchover has given me is - I can now access Food Network any time of the day or night!

Just hoping I can remember where to fit all the leads when I start all over again tomorrow!

[jeral Profile]

Hi. Hmm.

A couple of things spring to mind.

Is this your manual? http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/4265096131.pdf

To get the DTR to come out through the TV, use the remote control and see if there's a box with an arrow. If yours comes with the remote RMT-D259 like this one, it's bottom right http://sparedparts.com/parts/details/so ... te_control

You might need to press a similar button on your TV remote (it might be marked "AV", i.e. "please get audio visual from external source").

When you say that the buttons don't work, do you mean the ones on the remote or the DTR itself?

OK, that advice "switch off at the mains a few times" is errant nonsense. Once, yes, but certainly not repeatedly. The hard drive needs time to boot up and collect data, e.g. forward programmes (the EPG). So, switch DTR off at the mains for about 30-45 seconds. (Leave the TV on - you might need to press the AV button or box/arrow button on the TV remote again.) Then switch the DTR box back on at the mains, then don't press anything for about 30 seconds (important).

Then press the on/off switch on the remote once and wait. Do not be tempted to think it hasn't been recognised as there can be a few seconds delay, so if you press it again, you'll just be switching it off again, doh. After about 10 seconds, if nothing has happened, switch it on by pressing the button the DTR itself once and see what happens. Something should.

At initial set-up, mine doesn't recognise the remote unless I press the DTR button on my remote but I can't see one on yours, so if you switch yours on via the DTR on/off, that might be sufficient. - then wait!

The thing I did very wrong at first with mine was pressing buttons willy nilly if nothing seemed to be happening. I found that patience is a virtue with mine - it doesn't work like a computer screen by displaying a "rolling windmill" to show you it's doing something, it just looks dead until it's finished trying to complete your instruction, so if you keep pressing buttons willy nilly it doesn't know what it's supposed to be doing.

Where have you got to in the instruction book? If only up to changing the screen size, then clearly you've got it working and coming out through the TV. If it was faulty, I doubt you'd have got that far.

I'd say to switch it off at the mains once, and then be patient with each button pressing again or another. (I can't stress this enough.)

You could check that your connections are still OK if you've been lifting the DTR up to check them. Leave them alone if you're happy as "jiggling" the box can loosen jack plug etc.

Incidentally, my remote came with a code sheet to correspond with my TV that I had to enter. Yours is much newer so the TV function on your DTR might be "smart" and find it by itself. I haven't got that far yet in your manual...

I hope this helps. The thing is that if yours is actually OK but you're just not doing it right, then a replacement won't work either.

Edit PS: The other thing I was doing wrong was: If it didn't seem to be doing anything, I'd press and hold the remote button again for longer, thinking maybe I wasn't pointing the remote accurately. Mine doesn't like that. One quick press then wait. My manual said nothing about this waiting/patience business either.

[jeral Profile]

I'm now wondering *rubs chin* I gather that you were told to switch the HDMI (via the function button) to On (i.e. engage the Bravia Sync facility) which is slightly different from just pressing the AV or box+arrow buttons. Seemingly it could be better if it were switched to Off. I found the following forum which says that having it On can cause buttons to freeze. Also, in the Sony manual it's not clear as it's suggested it might be better turned off in the troubleshooting section near the end.

Worse though, the forum peeps don't seem like happy bunnies with an SVR HDT-500. I'm now thinking that even if you managed to get yours to work, you might not be happy as a couple of posts (latest ones) are saying that there are still problems (latest post at the moment is 24 Sept) even with the latest software and fixes to show recorded playbacks well (which was your reason for buying it). So, I'm wondering if I'd be inclined to ask for a refund, then buy something else. http://www.sony.co.uk/discussions/threa ... 7?tstart=0

[Alison Wright Profile]

Jeral, many thanks for your ongoing help

I've just lost a long post to you - will update in the morning.

[Alison Wright Profile]

Hi again,

Last night I programmed it to record today's Sat Kitchen - & amazingly it worked! & the picture quality of the playback is superb!

But - I am so 'not' understanding the manual yet & seem to be blundering through things, I've just programmed it now to record Barefoot Contessa & the red rec. light has just come on - so it's definitely working which is all I want it to do for now.

Yes - both your links to the manual & the remote are the same as mine.

However there are a couple of issues:

The buttons at the bottom of the remote (to control the TV functions) don't work at all, so I can't adjust the volume or mute the sound, I have to use the TV remote to do those - which isn't a problem, just that I know I shouldn't have to do that.

Also - last night I noticed there was a black strip at the top & bottom of the screen - a good inch deep, I switched off & went to bed. When I switched on this morning the strips had disappeared & there was a full screen! But when I tried to play back Sat Kitchen there was no signal. So with the TV remote, I pressed the function button & was surprised to see it had flipped off HDMI back to DTV - so I switched it back to HDMI & was able to watch Sat Kitchen!!!
but I'm still left with not quite a full screen!

Also - I'm not sure which buttons to press to do a full re-tune when needed?
I'd be grateful for any advice about the above issues if possible.

I've noted your advice about being patient when using the buttons - thankyou!

I've spent most of today reading the manual & clicking around with the remote & have cancelled the replacement box, & I'm happy enough with the functions I presently have & don't really want to rock the boat by getting further into a technical minefield until such times when I have to. But if there's anything you feel I should be made aware of - please feel free to tell!

But I'm 'very' grateful for all the time & effort you've gone to to help me out - I am blond but not a dizzy one, & still can't believe how much technology has moved on since I last programmed the old video tape recorder.

[jeral Profile]

Yey! First I'm delighted to hear that you've beaten it into submission Also good news about the playback quality, which I was a bit worried about.

Please keep all the packaging as there was a single sheet in mine with TV remote codes (to get the bottom buttons to work). I'll have a look at your manual to see if yours needs one. I've no doubt I can find the one for your remote if you didn't get said sheet. I'd need to know the exact make and model of your TV though. I suspect the codes are universal so should be easy enough to find without another 30 min phone call. Ouch.

I'll look up the menu selections for doing a re-tune. Re-tune is very different from re-format by the way; it's unnecessary to re-format it, just need to "Scan for Freeview channels".

Did you get black stripes either horizontal or vertical on your TV (given it's widescreen) beforehand? If not, two possibilities. One is that your TV chops either end and just shows the middle (a tuner wouldn't as it doesn't ever change the proportions a film or programme is made in. The other is that you could try a different option in your setting, like letterbox or 4x3. To be honest, I just live with them as it varies according to how a programme was filmed. (New TV programmes are made as 16x9 but old were made 4x3 so there isn't really a one-fits-all setting.)

In terms of important things you "ought to know", I'd suggest that you keep an eye on the guarantee period (hopefully at least a year) and get to learn and use all the functions, e.g. external sound and internet, at some point at your leisure to be sure they work. I'm sure internet connectivity will become more prominent as more and more people get the facility.

Aside from that, I'd bookmark that forum link and keep your eye on it. You could also register so you could ask those peeps who are more knowledgeable in every sense than I am, especially as mine isn't a Sony.

Another thing, when my red record light shows, a tiny green "1" shows too. If I'm recording two channels at once, both a tiny 1 and a tiny 2 show. (Need good eyesight from a distance lol.) Very useful though as you then know you can't change to a third. On mine, I can record two simultaneously and watch a previously recorded item from my library. Not sure if yours can, but it's very useful if you can.

Also my remote has a swap button, but I can't see one on yours, so I'll have a look at your manual for that too. It means that you can swap over to whatever the other tuner is doing, be it recording something or live TV, and swap back as wished and at will.

I'll write again after I've looked at your manual. Bye for now.

[jeral Profile]

Hi back again.

TV code numbers are shown in your manual, with how to enter them on Page 44. (To get bottom buttons working.) Assuming your TV is of a make listed, you should be OK. If not, let me know the make and model (by PM if you prefer) and I’ll try to track it down. Some models are OEM (own equipment manufacturer) so no brand is shown.

On the green “1” and “2” recording lights to show which are recording, yes you do have them. They appear on your front DTR panel side by side with a 1cm(?) gap in between.

Your re-tune (to do a scan) are on Page 54:
How to re-tune:
1 Press SYSTEM MENU.
2 Select “Channel” using </,, and press .
3 Select “Channel Scan” using M/m, and press .
4 Select “Full Rescan” using M/m, and press .
5 Follow the on-screen instructions.

Doing it might interfere with anything you are recording at the time (so do it when you’re not recording) but shouldn’t affect anything you’ve already recorded in your library (yours calls the library the Title List).

I haven’t found your equivalent of my swap button yet. You could see what options are shown if pressing the Info button. Or possibly it might (illogically) be your TV/Radio button.

On the stripes, I don’t know if changing to 16x9 means that both tuners are changed or just the one you’re sitting in, so to speak, so might need to change the other also. As I haven’t figured out how you swap yet, I’m not sure which button you’d use to switch to enable you to check.

I noticed in the manual that some things might be password barred. If so, your default is 0000 (see Page 24).

Shout back if I’ve forgotten anything.