Perfecting a language

[Joanbunting Profile]

Hi Sue

Love it. That is me really. The Miles Kington books were a big hit in this house where to this day with the family we speak Franglais - even the GCs are getting into it and yes, you are right, we are incomprehensible to others when we do it.

I think I have made vast progress from the days when I was a mirror image of the English policeman in 'Allo 'Allo.

I actually think that a female English accent is quite appealing to the natives just as a male French or Italian one is considered sexy by some of us.

My main reason for trying harder is that our stage of life it is quite possible I could be left to cope - so best be prepared.

[karadekoolaid Profile]

I'm bilingual English-Spanish. People tell me the only reason they know I'm not Venezuelan is a very slight accent. I think in Spanish and /or in English.
I used to be fluent in French but that went right down the drainhole after about 10 years over here! I suppose it's something I'd pick up again if it were necessary.
I used to have a working knowledge of German, too, but it's barely words now.
However, my advice as a qualified TEFL teacher is:
If you really want to learn a language,then live it, breathe it, eat it, enjoy it and don't be afraid. I'd only been here for two years when I sat down with the fishermen on Margarita Island to ask what they were catching. Very rudimentary Spanish, but they were all so helpful I never looked back.
The other thing which is so, so, soooooooooo important is that you learn a second language in this order:
Listen, Speak, Read , Write.
If you start learning with a dictionary in your hand, or one of those awful phrase book things, you'll NEVER learn and your accent will be incomprehensible!

[Joanbunting Profile]

KK

Do you think some people have an "Ear" for language? I am pretty sure M and DD have - they are both very musical and can sing and play an instrument to a high level.

Me - I did learn the piano to a fairly high (grade 7) level and I could sing more or less in tune and did sing in choirs.

I can hear French well and people say my accent is good (despite my Provencale accent ) BUT I still can't really do the grammar bit. I was hopeless at Latin and I initially failed to see the relevance of genders, agreements and tenses (I admit I still do to an extent) My French is actually "Bat on regardless" as long as people get the message.

I still maintain that if you can and are willing to communicate then all will be well - mostly.

I do envy M and DD who can chat effortlessly with anyone from 2-92.

In the early days here I used to have my most meaningfull conversations with our neighbour's mum who had dementia. She was the only person I could really talk to without major problems of comprehension - we used to talk for ages!! These days it is all the littles we have now - they are a joy and we get on really well.

[chicken_hot_pot]

I've definitely still got an English accent, people comment on it all the time, most boring. I've given up worrying about it.

[karadekoolaid Profile]

Do you think some people have an "Ear" for language?

Yes,I do Joan, very much so. Some people can pick up language easily; others suffer forever!
I think that applies to other subjects, though. Some are brilliant at maths ( not me!) others have a knack for sales,some of us are dab hands at cooking - others haven't got a clue!

Perhaps it's all to do with the genes ( Levi's or Wranglers)

[Joanbunting Profile]

Hi KK

I think so too, but last night DD pointed out to me that her dad heard French from being little - his Nan was half French and very comfortable in the language. She also reminded me that M sang French nursery songs to her from day one and she could sing them just as well as Jack and Jill.

My memories of being told stories and being sung to were all North Country - Lambton Worm, Blaydon Races!! Because we were back in Newcastle when son was a tot those are the songs he heard from my dad and me alongside the French ones.

Also DD is a natural mimic as is her daughter, whereas son was a doer like me and his beloved grandad. Mind you he did get an A for GCSE French - but then he had a brilliant teacher - M. I had to learn the very hard way.

I am so pleased that after DD decided she could no longer continue her job as a solicitor - married to an army officer - after the children were born, she retrained as an infant teacher specialising in music and French and is right now running French for tinies courses and loving it.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

I am not sure about an ear for languages being related to musicality, but I do think it has to do with early exposure - though again not entirely

I have something of an ear (but am not very musical, though not useless). Mum has no ear for languages at all, though claims to be musical (doubtful) - but her grandmother was Spanish, and Mum spent a lot of time with her when young and never picked up a single word (and couldn't learn it when she tried in her 40s)

Midge Ure (most definitely musical) was the first elimated from Pop Star to Opera Star, he claimed because he couldn't cope with singing in foreign laguages rather than becasue he couldn't hit the notes, which I found quite interesting.

Clearly the workings of the speech centre are complex!

[karadekoolaid Profile]

I've also heard that "musical ear" thing before, but I don't think it's to do directly with the music as such; rather, a musician is trained to detect the slightest difference in tone, nuance, melody,etc. (At least ,I was!). THAT is where it comes from.
What I can assure you is that, by listening first, and writing last, your chances o learning a language well are hugely enhanced. Forget about "grammar " until your control of the language is at least Intermediate. There's no point whatsoever in teaching "grammar" to beginners.

[Joanbunting Profile]

I've also heard that "musical ear" thing before, but I don't think it's to do directly with the music as such; rather, a musician is trained to detect the slightest difference in tone, nuance, melody,etc. (At least ,I was!). THAT is where it comes from.
What I can assure you is that, by listening first, and writing last, your chances o learning a language well are hugely enhanced. Forget about "grammar " until your control of the language is at least Intermediate. There's no point whatsoever in teaching "grammar" to beginners.

I so agree KK and that I think was the reason I struggled with French until I stopped worrying and started listening. At school it was nothing BUT grammar and the only time we ever heard it spoken was when we did dictée - at which I was hopeless. I used to have such panic attacks you wouldn't believe.

[hungryhousewife Profile]

KK and Joan, you've both hit the nail right on the head! The way children are taught languages in this country, at least used to be in our day, was to learn the building blocks of grammar, and then pin on the vocab, but as pointed out by KK this is the wrong way round. You need to get an 'ear' for the sound of the language, and the rest then follows, if you make the effort. That is how we learn as children.

Regarding the musical link, I think, as KK mentioned, it helps if you can hear the differences in tone, and that often goes hand in hand with a musical ability. The ability to remember the vocab is something totally different.

Sue, I think there are loads of people who are musical, artistic, talented in some way, but who haven't been given the opening to discover. Just look at the people who did so well in the Olympics pursuing sports they'd never tried before! Or the people on Strictly Come Dancing, Masterchef, who are experts in other fields, and become pretty proficient at dancing, cooking etc.

HH