The tribulations of a vegan, eating out

[Breadandwine Profile Website]

I've been on a bit of roll, recently, in that, before last week, I'd had half a dozen meals out in succession which had all been fine.

But I came a bit of a cropper at the Sanctuary in Taunton last week.

After the asparagus in olive oil starter, the main meal we'd agreed on didn't come up to scratch (it was a barley risotto, smothered in fresh coriander, which wasn't explained to me, and I turned it down), I couldn't find anything else to suit on the menu. So I said if they brought me a bowl of chips and some bread, I'd be happy with that.

Can't do that, they said, our chips are cooked in animal fat.

So I finished up having several slices of bread dipped in olive oil and balsamic vinegar for dinner!

To my surprise there was a sorbet on the sweet menu, so I had that. (But the glass dish they served it with had a narrow 'dip' in the bottom where all the sweet sauce collected - and I couldn't get my spoon in!)

I wasn't charged for a main meal of course.

When I got home I emailed them with my thoughts, and they've responded thanking me for taking the time to write to them and offering to refund the cost of my whole meal, plus the cost of the bottle of wine (£18, the cheapest on the menu, but very nice it was, too - a Chilean Merlot if my memory serves me right).

I've emailed them again, to take up their fair offer and once again giving them my thoughts - especially about the chips.

If they respond by saying they'll make chips in vegetable fat I shall edit this post and remove the name of the restaurant.

I went for a walk on the Quantocks, mid-week, and visited the Blue Ball in Triscombe for lunch. I asked for chips, mushrooms and baked beans, which I've had there before. No chips, they said, all our chips are 3 times fried and it takes 45 minutes. I asked for beans, "No beans, I'm afraid!"

I thought I'd ended up in a Peter Sellers sketch!

Fortunately, they could do me mushrooms on toast, which I have to say was lovely!

My friends had the soup of the day, which I would have had - if it hadn't contained cream.

Cheers, Paul

[efcliz Profile Website]

Paul, I can't quite tell from your post if you had agreed your meal with the restaurant in advance or not. If so, then I agree that you should have got what was described - is there something about either barley or coriander you can't eat? But if you just turned up on the day expecting to find vegan food then I'm not really surprised nor very sympathetic, I'm afraid. And if the chips weren't marked as vegetarian on the menu then why would you expect them to be? loads of places cook their chips in lard and it was far better that they told you than just gave you a portion.


Of course in your and my ideal world everywhere we went would have vegan food, and it wouldnt contain ingredients we didn't like, but if I'm going anywhere I always phone or e-mail in advance, just as I would if I had an allergy or was a very fussy eater.

[Gillthepainter Profile Website]

I don't get this.
Firstly, if you are that desperate that you want a plate of chips, I know you eat eggs, so they could have made you an omelette.

On the site it says

West Country Foods supply our fresh seasonal vegetables sourced from local.

so why couldn't you eat vegetables? Not great, but more enjoyable than a plate of chips I'd have thought.

Furthermore, they state

We happily cater for groups, couples or singles, meat eaters and vegetarians alike.
If you have special dietary requirements or known food allergies please let us know in advance so that we can cater for you.

They don't claim to be vegan.

As Liz says, did you organise your dish preferences in advance?
We always did that with my mum who had specific health needs, and places take pride in being able to support you with your food needs.

I'm not having a go, I'm trying to understand what the restaurant has done wrong here, Paul, and what broke down in the communication. Especially as I feel you are naming and shaming.

[karadekoolaid Profile]

If they respond by saying they'll make chips in vegetable fat I shall edit this post and remove the name of the restaurant.

I bet they're really scared, Paul
In a perfect world, every restaurant and pub would have food items for Vegans, Vegetarians, lactose-intolerant, Halal and Kosher, Indian Jains and Nepalese Bhuddists, but nothing's perfect.
What was wrong with the risotto?

I feel that, by offering to return your money in full, the is making the right gesture. What´s the problem?

[Dover Soul Profile]

Was the wine vegan Paul? Most wines still aren't. There's also a good chance the sorbet had egg white or gelatin in it to keep it soft. Did you check if that was vegan too?

I think the restaurant were very good to tell you the chips were cooked in animal fat, a lot of places would just have given them to you without batting an eyelid!

[Mrs Vee Profile]

Hi Paul

I sympathise – I find it hard enough to get a halfway decent vegetarian meal in any of the restaurants local to us, so I think the chances of getting anything worth eating that’s vegan are probably slim to none! We’d love to eat out more but it’s just not worth the effort; there’s only so much mushroom risotto or vegetable lasagne a person can take, I’m afraid. I’m also tired of being given just one ‘choice’ on the menu – I can almost guarantee it’ll include non-vegetarian cheese, despite being marked ‘V’; what’s worse is when the only ‘choice’ is something I don’t like anyway, then I’m really in trouble!

I wrote the following blog post shortly after going out to dinner for our wedding anniversary last year; unsurprisingly, we won’t be bothering this year!

http://simply-veggie.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... g-out.html

[Happy Violas Profile]

Nearly 30 years ago when I became vegetarian I had trouble finding decent veggie food in restaurants and usually ended up with an omelette ... over the years things improved an awful lot such that I never bothered to check before going out. However, in the past year I've noticed things regressing ... often there is only one choice (lasagne from a pub microwave ... yet again) and at one place recently where there wasn't anything veggie I caused a raised eyebrow by deviating from the menu and requesting ham, egg and chips without the ham! A lot of restaurants have example menus online so I do tend to check before turning up and certainly if I'm booking I ask over the phone. Having said that, on a recent trip to Goa the menus were all veggie but with a separate list of meat dishes - it took me ages to decide what to have as I was so unused to having most of the menu to choose from

[cooksalot Profile]

Firstly, if you are that desperate that you want a plate of chips, I know you eat eggs, so they could have made you an omelette.

Sorry, I'm confused - does a vegan eat eggs?
Surely they could have put something sensible together? My favourite Italian restaurant doesn't have Spaghetti Carbonara on the menu but are happy to prepare one for me, if that is what I fancy. Couldn't they have knocked up something like a tomato & herb pasta?

[Catherine Profile]

Their childrens menu does have pasta with a tomato sauce. Could you not have asked for that, or as Gil says the risotto. You could also have had the soup of the day.

[Doctor Yes Profile]

Or vegetables and a side salad?

I assume you didn't approve of the corriander on the risotto? Couldn't you have asked for the corriander to be left off?

I think there was plenty of food you could have eaten, if you had wanted to and not wanted to make a somewhat misguided point.

Also confused an egg eating vegan.

[Breadandwine Profile Website]

Well...where do I start?

Liz and Gill, please give me a bit of credit - of course I contacted the restaurant to tell them I was a vegan! I was assured that there would be no problem - they would look after me. Normally, I would discuss exactly what I would eat, but they were so confident they would have something for me - so I was happy with that. I do like to be pleasantly surprised on occasion.

Looking back, it was mis-communication between the waitress and myself that caused the problem. The menu did specify a barley risotto, but I didn't get to look at the menu. The waitress gave me two choices - a veg stir-fry with fresh coriander or a risotto. Since it wasn't mentioned, I assumed the risotto would be coriander free. I wouldn't have chosen it if I had known it was made with barley. I tried to eat it, moving the coriander to one side, but it just wasn't very nice. The veg were al dente when I'd been assured they would be soft.

I know you eat eggs, so they could have made you an omelette

Gill, you don't 'know' that I eat eggs! Several years ago I mentioned that, if my wife was going to throw out a couple of eggs that were past their sell-by-date, since I hate waste, I would eat them. Now that my wife has seen that I've come to no harm by eating them, this no longer arises. So I can tell you, I don't eat eggs. The question of an omelette couldn't have arisen.

And I haven't 'named and shamed' as you put it, Gill. I may have named, but anyone reading this would see that a mistake was made, and the restaurant have apologised and have made me what I consider to be a very reasonable offer. This should reassure any prospective customer.

About the chips - maybe I've led a sheltered life, but I haven't come across this before. I just think it's short-sighted of any restaurant not to be as inclusive as possible. Any group of people making a booking is liable to contain at least one vegetarian.

As for other choices, once the chips were off-limits I wasn't up for trawling through the menu trying to find something. I knew I could fill up on bread so I settled for that.

[Doctor Yes Profile]

So asking for some veg and salad would have meant trawling through the menu again? Or asking for the stirfry without corriander? Oh, and what about the wine and sorbet, were they both vegan?

[efcliz Profile Website]

I suppose I'm lucky to like most things, but if you were offered two things and you didn't like the ingredients in either of them, then that's just sheer bad luck and nothing to do with "tribulations of a vegan eating out".

[Breadandwine Profile Website]

So asking for some veg and salad would have meant trawling through the menu again? Or asking for the stirfry without corriander? Oh, and what about the wine and sorbet, were they both vegan?

Thanks for your concern, Dr Y.

I would urge anyone with similar concerns to have a go at eating vegan themselves. There is great satisfaction in knowing that your actions do not contribute to the exploitation of animals, that you are making far better use of the world’s resources and that you’re probably going to be a healthier individual as a result.

Hi Liz

The choice between a spelt risotto (with al dente veg) and a coriander-smothered stir-fry isn't a choice at all in my book, I'm afraid. The chips in lard just limited my choice even further.

However, perhaps I could have entitled the thread "The tribulations of a fussy vegan..."

That's a serious point that Dr Y raised about vegan wine. You eat out a lot more than I do - how do you manage?

At home, all the wine I drink is vegan, but when I go out I generally share a bottle of red with two others, so I go along with their choice.

[efcliz Profile Website]

I don't eat out all that often except for all the Indians I go to locally which are BYO, and like you I only have vegan wine at home. If I eat out in other cities it's generally in veggie places where they usually do label the wine. But on occasions where I'm out and I'm not sure I do drink wine that I don't know about. But then I tend not to tell other people what they should and shouldn't be eating or drinking.

I do think that offering you 2 things is perfectly acceptable, impressive even. and it isn't their fault you didn't like them. On very unusual occasions I end up at some kind of family gathering and have a situation like yours, where the food isn't up to much - as long as it's vegan I grin and bear it. On a particularly bad occasion (no-one's food was that good), I did e-mail the restaurant later and very politely complained. They didn't respond, so that place is off the list of my family now, and many people who know them. Silly.

[Gillthepainter Profile Website]

I would urge anyone with similar concerns to have a go at eating vegan themselves. There is great satisfaction in knowing that your actions do not contribute to the exploitation of animals, that you are making far better use of the world’s resources and that you’re probably going to be a healthier individual as a result.

I ate out sometimes as part of a family/ friend group. with a sister's friend who always left a pea/chip/carrot on the plate but ate the rest of the meal.
Then complained about the dish.
One regular waitress stood her ground and said since she'd actually eaten the meal she wasn't going to accept her complaints once again. She was in the right, too.

Liz and I have been out for a vegan meal together. Although we both know the food could have been a little better, that's the sort of satisfying vegan experience I want to share.

I really feel that the restaurant has done absolutely nothing wrong, from what is presented to me here.
(And yes, you may not realise it, but you are naming and shaming, having said you'd remove the restaurant name dependent upon their response to you).

Really, without the rhetoric of saving the world. What am I missing? I just don't see it from my end.

& how do the other guests feel whenever you make a fuss, Paul? Supportive, uncomfortable, silent, used to it?
I ask as it can spoil it for some at the same table, other than be a satisfying experience as you mention in quotes.

[Breadandwine Profile Website]

I'm not having a go

I'd hate to see you when you were having a go, Gill!

[Gillthepainter Profile Website]

I know. I know.
I'm sorry Paul. But you're always such a good sport about it when I'm giving you the inquisition.

Have a great evening.

[Joanbunting Profile]

"Breadmaking is an easy, everyday activity - not some difficult art form!"

Paul, much as I admire what you do I regret that this statement is not correct.

I love to make bread and I think I make rather good bread , but only when I can find the time between all the other things I want to do. It is not an everyday activity, unless you have nothing else to do. I really do have something else to do most days. On breadmaking days, possibly once a week, I go for it and we enjoy the results.

I just make my bread as a matter of course. Which I suppose is just what you are saying ing ?

Trouble for me is I can't eat much of it - others love it though.
!

[Breadandwine Profile Website]

...others love it though.

That's very satisfying, Joan!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's just another form of cooking - no more difficult than making a soup, say. The trouble is, most people think breadmaking is difficult.

The last three courses I've run, I've asked the students that question, "Who thought that breadmaking was difficult?" - and every time, three quarters of the class put their hands up.

I'm running another course tomorrow, in Bridgwater, and I'll guarantee that it'll be just the same.

Of course, after they've made some bread themselves, and seen it's just putting some ingredients together and waiting a bit, they don't think that any more!

Whether they then go on and make it at home is a different matter - but at least, they'll know there's no mystery to it.

Cheers, Paul