Yet another foodscare :-(

[Petronius Profile]

Yes Sue, the main report mentions ethnicity isn't covered and therefore cannot be extrapolated to a country's population. The report is open about its limitations as I would expect them to be.

I agree with you about sweetners in foods as well as drinks and that probably applies to a lot of other American studies that reach the papers hear. I understand they use far more antibiotics in their food chain they we do.

[Sakkarin Profile]

Looks like saturated fat has a reprieve now...

Haven't fully digested it (the story that is), just linking it here for the sake of a complete record of all the stories I've found online.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... xperts-say

[Stokey Sue Profile]

The trouble with all these is that they are based on what Michael Pollan defines as "nutritionaism" - i.e. looking at a diet one substance or small group of substances at a time instead of as a whole

We don't eat "saturated fats" - we eat a diet which includes a random mixture of fats Some of us eat more random mixtures than others so...

I think he's right - he's the guy who came up with the phrase "Eat food, not too much mostly plants". I don't agree with everything he says, he can be verbose and self satisfied, but in this case I do

his web site
http://michaelpollan.com/

Which doesn't mean to say all dietary or nutritional research is redundant, we do need guidelines, they help, we need to fight the obesity epidemic, and we need to look into oddities like grapefruit interacting with drugs, and to examine new substances such as artificial sweeteners that haven't evolved with out bodies.

A British campaigner against "nutritbollocks" that I follow is Angry Chef (aka Anthony Warner) - his site also gets a bit verbose and some of his language is definitely post watershed
http://angry-chef.com/

He, Judy Swift, and Kimberley Wilson and a few others are also associated with a new web site, the Nourishment Network, which is more sober. and in some ways in more depth, being less reactive. Not much on it yet, but it has only been going 3 weeks, give it a chance
https://thenourishmentnetwork.com/who-are-we/

There's also a campaign to make "nutritionists" register - dieticians are regulated, nutritionists / nutritional therapist are not and people with no relevant qualifications at all can and do talk about seeing "patients" at their Harley Street "clinic"

Back to the bad old days of Gillian the poo poker

[Petronius Profile]

I'm enjoying this thread.

Recently came across a study by two academics, one from Oxford Brookes University and the other Nottingham Trent. The full version is here,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672390/

but in brief, in Mid Victorian times we were astonishingly healthy (once infancy had been survived) and ate huge amounts of meat which had, of course, lots of fat. Apparently we ate equally large amounts of veg, fruit and nuts. Also, we burnt a lot of calories. However, as Victoria's reign drew to a close, the nation's health had gone downhill.

Over the last part of that century the invention of roller milling for sugar meant easy availability of sugar, the nation's teeth dropped out and thus could only tackle soft stuff - tin beef from Argentina for example. We lacked nutrition.

Flour also was milled and its goodness de-valued.

That's a very simple summary.

Over the last couple of years a friend has sent me a lot stuff from American 'experts', their opinions based on research, usually someone else's. In my view those researches have been re-interpreted in a dubious fashion. As do our popular press, though probably more down to lazy journalism and relying on just copying each other.

The obesity crisis in China (as an example) appears to be linked more to refined sugar and processed foods than any other factor.

One of your links Sakks, led me on to another about sugar; apparently lab rats prefer sugar to cocaine and in the years 1978 to 2013 the amount of sugar in a Hovis wholemeal loaf has doubled.

As Sue suggests, it's not a single item we should be concerned about but the whole package we eat. Thanks for the link to the Angry Chef as well.

[Sakkarin Profile]

A dig at gluten-free products. I notice in supermarkets the "free-from" section gets bigger and bigger.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... rn-experts

[Sakkarin Profile]

Red meat gets a bashing again today. Can't be bothered to even read it

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... rt-disease

[miss-mouse Profile]

I see it is a study of half a million Americans' (didn't read beyond that, sorry). You don't suppose that it has anything to do with the GM cattle feed, growth enhancing hormones and routine antibiotics given in the feed lots do you? I expect high fructose corn syrup will also come into it somewhere.

[Petronius Profile]

I see it is a study of half a million Americans' (didn't read beyond that, sorry). You don't suppose that it has anything to do with the GM cattle feed, growth enhancing hormones and routine antibiotics given in the feed lots do you? I expect high fructose corn syrup will also come into it somewhere.

Very wise miss-mouse, considering, "In 1995 questionnaires on demographic characteristics, diet, and lifestyle were mailed to 3.5 million AARP members aged 50-71 years .... Our final analytic cohort included 536 969 people (316 505 men and 220 464 women)."

"At baseline, participants completed a 124 item food frequency questionnaire, the National Cancer Institute Diet History Questionnaire (DHQ), collecting information on their usual consumption of foods and drinks and portion sizes over the previous 12 months"

I think it was a covert test of memory!

Some of the comments from Guardian readers are priceless, here's one,

"This latest study, like others, shows that substituting white for red meat reduced the risk of dying from most causes."
-
And what's more, it is established that being alive inevitably results in death 100% of the time."

[jeral Profile]

I'd have thought that chicken in the UK is what people eat too much of, except maybe for perpetual fast-food burger eaters. So moderation (and variety) logically should be headlined if giving out advice methinks.

Also, on US TV progs, they seem to eat a lot of pork (often charred black) which is a red meat technically so no get out of jail free card with that either.

[miss-mouse Profile]

What is wrong with chicken? I usuallY find it seriously dull but it is a protein staple in many places without harm when it has not been interfeared with by Big PharmaAgri.

Code: Select all

they seem to eat a lot of pork (often charred black) which is a red meat technically

US pork farms are appalling. The little I know, regular antibiotics alters the gut absorption and the pigs gain weight fast, isn't that marvellous. Goodness knows what they are fed.

Chuck on a ton of salt and a pile of high fructose corn syrup and a few synthetic flavourings...

[jeral Profile]

I have nothing against chicken per se, just that eating too much of any one thing is said not to be a good thing, hence some recommend rotating foods on a minimum three day cycle.

It could be complete gobbledygook, who knows, but variety makes sense to me.

[karadekoolaid Profile]

Once again, I recommend moderation and ignorance.
Moderation in the sense that, if you eat four steaks a day (be they beef, chicken, pork ,turkey, goat, crocodile or great white shark), you are undoubtedly overdoing the protein.
If you live on lettuce, green beans, cucumber and rocket, it might just be the other way round
Ignorance in this case means not taking too much notice of the doomsayers. I`ve been admonished, over the years, for eating too many peanuts, chips, fried food, butter, cheese, tomato and chiles. Fortunately for me, I give a fig and let my body do the talking!
Pork, incidentally, is always referred to as "the other white meat!"

[Badger's Mate Profile]

I`ve been admonished, over the years, for eating too many peanuts, chips, fried food, butter, cheese, tomato and chiles.

I remember getting a lecture from someone at a party about the evils of eating chicken skin. I'd admitted to this 'fowl deed', and he'd had various cardiovascular issues, so was vocal on the subject of saturated fats.

However, his argument was weakened somewhat by the mince pie and cream he was eating at the time...

[Petronius Profile]

Thank you for your birthday wishes – the celebrations were pre-birthday and there's more at the weekend. The day, which happens to be today, is when everyone has to work and we were expecting to be in Yorkshire anyway.

Thus my birthday started with getting OH to a Musculoskeletal Practitioner, part of a new team at our Surgery to free up doctors dealing with back pain. Lovely guy, very thorough, giving good advice and OH is ready for Yorkshire by train on Thursday.


We've discovered that eating the same meal (a stew say) doesn't do OH much good. Yes KK, our bodies are worth a listen.

“Moderation and ignorance” - love that line.

In general I believe, as Sue posted earlier, that's there's not one thing that makes as unhealthy. Processed meals, lots of additional sauces from bottles, pesticides, herbicides and so on do the damage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39490182

As for pampering Jeral, there wasn't time – all OH could do was sit, watch and chat. She did try to tell daughters what to do but they soon sorted her out!

[Stokey Sue Profile]

Happy Birthday Dennis! Enjoy the extended celebrations

[Renée Profile]

BM, I had to laugh at that man who gave you a lecture about chicken skin, but was eating mince pies and cream! Obviously he didn't know that chickens contain plenty of healthy fats and only a small amount of saturated fat.

Happy birthday, Petronius and have a lovely time in Yorkshire.

[WhitefieldFoodie Profile]

I have very much enjoyed reading this thread.

I have 3 simple rules in my diet:

- Eat 5 colours of plant based food/day.
- Do not eat the same "macronutrients" on consecutive days. One day Protein/carb, next protein/fats. I try and leave, carb/fat, and the holy trinity until the weekend
- 2 fast days per week (well 1000KCals)

Rules 1 & 2 not only help ensure I get a good balanced diet, but it makes me think about my cooking more, and forces me to cook different things.

[Gillthepainter Profile Website]

.... and rule number 4 ................


Never look inside the package













(Jason Statham Transporter quote, for those of you scratching your head)

[Sakkarin Profile]

Oh for heaven's sake. Belgians are being obliged by law to blanch chips to reduce acrylamides, the latest deadly chemical they've found in our food as discussed previously on this thread. Although it's all a little sketchy - if it's EU law, wouldn't we be obliged to too?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... n-chemical

[Petronius Profile]

I doubt it Sakks as I can't see Brussels getting in touch just as we negotiate leaving.

Did I see the other day that Coconut Oil has now gone from being a Goodie to a Baddie?

And Sue I hope you can help me.

Recently I downloaded an article explaining the difference between statistical significance used in food studies and relative risk apparently used by epidemiologists. Foolishly I failed to copy the link. I understand what's meant by 'statistical significance' and also 'relative risk.' (I think) Is it possible for you to say whether the following is an accurate summary.

statistical significance is not necessarily the same as biological significance.

if the disease risk of the group consuming the most of a suspect product is less than double the risk of the comparison group, epidemiologists consider the link between product and disease to be a weak one.

Thank you.