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Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:31 pm

Well I made a completely no-knead loaf to PTB's 100:83 ratio, using 500g strong white flour (cost 20p from Asda), 415ml cold water, 6g dried yeast and 6g salt. Left overnight (10 hours) covered in clingfilm, then carefully tipped out onto floured silicone sheet, shaped with minimal handling, and dusted with more flour. Covered with teatowel and left for an hour, then baked on baking stones in a very hot oven (225deg), primed with a few squirts of water to make steam, for about 25 minutes.

The end was not quite ciabatta, but pretty damn close! I am sure if it had been left for another hour to prove it would have puffed up even more. This may very well become my loaf of choice, very soft, but with an underlying suggestion of chewiness, micro thin but crispy crust. And tasty. Maybe add a few tablespoons of olive oil next time.

Click pic for close-up

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:03 pm

Latest trial, this time replaced some of the water with olive oil. 500g flour, 380ml water, 40ml olive oil. Also left for full 2 hours for second prove. You can't see the shininess, but the "flesh" of the bread has that slight sheen that oil gives to bread inside the air pockets, which as you can probably see are more pronounced than before. Given that this is absolutely no-knead, I am dead chuffed.

I took lots of photos as I went along, if anyone is interested in a full runthrough. I may just post them anyway!

Click pic to enlarge

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Mrs Vee » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:22 pm

Hi Sakkarin - I never buy bread; although I’ve tried making bread by hand I’ve never had very good results so I’ve resorted to a bread machine which gives consistent if unexciting results.

The loaf in your picture above has fired me up to have another go! I shall mix up a batch tonight and let you know how I get on. (If I say nothing you’ll know it was a disaster!)

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:37 pm

If you hang on till tomorrow, I will post a full runthrough of pix. Just had three slices with cherry jam, and it is the biz!!!

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:35 pm

500g strong white flour, 1.5 tsp dried yeast, 1.5 tsp salt, 40ml olive oil, 380ml water - mix dry ingredients together before adding liquid.

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Mix together to form a moist mass. Cover with cling film and leave for 10 to 12 hours

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Dough will have risen dramatically

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Nice and stringy - loads of air

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Tease the dough carefully out onto a silicone sheet dusted with flour (most poundshops sell this for a quid), onto a peel of some sort (the metal sheet here is what I use)

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Here's the dough in one big pile

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With as little handling as possible, shape it a bit, and dust the top with flour, and cover with a dry clean teatowel. Prove for 2 hours.

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Ready for baking

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Note that I use four teracotta floor tiles as my bread stones, and when oven is up to temperature (225 degrees), I squirt a few squirts of water into the baking tray I've left in the bottom of the oven to create steam.

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25 minutes later:

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Close-up

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Mrs Vee » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:58 pm

:clap

Right...that does it, I'm definitely going to have a go tonight; even a bread numpty like me could manage that!

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:37 pm

:thumbsup

The trick is really to leave as much of the air in it when you empty it out and give it that final shape... which is just a few nudges to make it more of a loaf shape.

Incidentally those red spoons are part of the Asda set which costs about a quid, and they are 1/2 tablespoon measures - in other words exactly 1.5 teaspoons. Also the water container is a standard green curry pack - filled nearly to the top. So you don't even need to weigh them if you have those bits of kit. I guess you could also translate the flour into "green curry cupfuls", meaning no weighing or measuring at all. Probably about 2 and 3/4 of them.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Wokman » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:15 pm

I managed to get hold of some fresh yeast from the bakery at a local supermarket. One supermarket bakery flatly refused to give or sell me any, but another more friendly baker at a rival supermarket gave me about 400gms.
I made a standard white loaf with it a few days ago using 500gm strong flour, 1.5 tsp salt, 1 tsp of sugar, 20gm of butter and 21gms of fresh yeast.
The result was surprisingly delicious, so much so that the loaf we bought from the supermarket went to waste as we just ate the home made one.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Dena » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:48 pm

Hi Sakkarin, I've made this Abel & Cole no knead bread http://www.abelandcole.co.uk/recipes/bread, but it didn't look as good as yours. I'll definitely give your recipe a go now.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:59 pm

Sorry Wokky, I didn't reply before, I went through the supermarket yeast thing a couple of years back, when they all stopped doing it round here, going from shop to shop till I found one that did. The only local one that still does it to my knowledge is Sainsbury's, which is where I get mine. They do it in 50g or 200g lots. I don't know how much the 50g is, I always get the 200g as it's only 59p! Sometimes they don't even bother charging.

It was great when they did it in Tesco, as mine is only 5 minutes walk away - but it was always a furtive thing trying to catch the Baker's eye, and it sometimes took several discussions with other "underlings" until they understood exactly what you wanted. A couple of times I was led round the store to the dried yeast DOH!

Incidentally at college I was always told you can freeze it, although it seemed to end up rather unpleasant looking so I never do. Maybe I should check that theory on the bit I've got left in the fridge.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Wokman » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Hi Sakkarin,

If freezing works I would like to know about it as I have loads of yeast, as far as I know it can be kept for up to 4 weeks in the fridge, but I have no idea how long my free sample has been in the fridge at the supermarket.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:14 pm

I will put some in the freezer now, and have reminded myself that I have some frozen keema parathas in there that were a quid for 4 in Tesco yesterday, and have a nice snack!

EDIT: five 12g portions of yeast now in the freezer, but I've just consulted my "Freeze It" book, which says it can be frozen for up to 6 weeks - I knew there was something odd about freezing it, but could not remember the detail. I will make a note to retrieve it in 4 weeks' time and see how it does.

My yeast is a week or so old - I think the clue to freshness is how pink it is. Mine had some slightly browning edges (which I discarded), but was mostly fresh. I seem to remember that defrosted it looked pretty nasty.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Mrs Vee » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:46 pm

Hi Sakkarin - I made your no-knead 'almost' ciabatta last night and baked it this morning; it was brilliant and so easy! Many thanks; it will definitely become a regular loaf for us. :thumbsup

I'm a complete technophobe so I haven't yet worked out how to post pics but it's on my blog if you fancy a look.

http://simply-veggie.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/no-knead-loaf.html

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:08 pm

Oy, it looks better than mine!!!! Fab!

EDIT: P.S., hope you don't mind me linking to your picture...

Click pic to enlarge

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Gillthepainter » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:15 am

Super breads Mrs Vee and Sakkarin.
I made the no-knead once using dried yeast and remember the crumb was super light.

If I've not got any time to fanny around with bread, I'll mix up the no-knead batch at 10pm just before beddy-byes.
And fashion it into a loaf form at 6am, to go into the oven at around 7:30/ 8am.

It's a fantastic technique.

Re fresh vs dried. I prefer the idea of fresh, but cannot really tell the difference.

Side by side tests sort that out. Great experiment Sakkarin!

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby dennispc » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:18 am

I thought it time I joined the party, so had a go and produced a tasty loaf for Sunday lunch. Tasty but the height was only 35 mm, just over an inch. Sliced lengthways it made nice sandwiches.

Ciabatta.JPG
Ciabatta.JPG (121.6 KiB) Viewed 11436 times


It was all going so well until putting it on the baking parchment, whilst proving it just spread. The guy in the posted video did a lot more shaping than's been suggested, maybe I should've tucked in the sides. Next time I'll try a baker's fold.

In your photos, Sakkarin, is that Dried Active Yeast (from yellow tin) or Fast Active?

My baking times at 230C were 25 mins plus another 10, plus another 5 to brown the bottom and it still wasn't as brown as I'd expect.

P.S. Whilst typing this reply originally I lost half of it so it may appear twice.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:46 am

Looks like a long thin slice of streaky would have gone well with that bread!

I used the ordinary, not fast, dried yeast. I wouldn't have thought with that length of proving it would make a great deal of difference which you used, as per my original test of fresh v. dried (that was ordinary dried).

Why was it flat? I think the dough was too wet. At that first stage, although it is a very, very wet dough, it should still hold a coherent shape, it's not a batter - which is how I would describe a proper ciabatta dough. It may be that your flour is a bit less absorbent than the one I used, I suggest next time you make it, hold back a few tablespoonsful of water (say 40ml), and add them in gradually once you can see if the dough is holding its shape in a (floppy) ball. Once you know how that flour works, you will have your own quantity for future loaves.

With mine, the preheated baking stones kick-start the baking process. If you were using a cold baking sheet that would affect the timing (and also leave a cold bottom, as it seems you had). Preheat the baking sheet in the oven (I use it upside down so the top is flat), then slide the parchment onto it to cook - that's why I use the sheet of metal under the parchment when it's proving, to have the bread separate from the tray/stones.

Incidentally that metal thing was actually a proper peel, which I got from Lidl for a fiver, but the stupid thing had a plastic handle, and I accidentally left it in the oven, so the handle melted :-(

Also it may be that your cooker actually runs not quite as hot as it indicates, in which case use a bit higher temperature, although the other suggestions will probably resolve it.

EDIT: The first one I made I did a couple of "Baker's folds", the last was as it came - the idea is NOT to knock out any of the air.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby dennispc » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:36 am

Thanks Sakkarin for so much help.. OH enjoyed your first sentence, so did I, though this morning I sliced the left over bit and had marmalade on toast. Great.

I asked about the dried yeast as the instructions mixed the yeast with flour and salt, normally I refresh dried yeast with water. Although I reduced the total amount of water to take that into account perhaps that’s what made a difference. At least now I have an idea of what ‘too wet’ means when doing a wet dough.

As for the oven, that’s a possibility as yesterday, before I’d read your post, I had a similar problem with a sourdough bake. The hint should’ve been the time it took for the oven to get to temperature, much longer than usual. It’s a good oven, well used, so it might be losing its oomph.

I must go searching for some more wall tiles (I’ve only got one) to use as stones. Normally I pre-heat a tray in the oven and lift the baking parchment onto it. The oven has shelf sliders (when we remember to use them) so that’s relatively easy to do.

Your Edit needs another one - “I did a couple of "Baker's folds", the last was as it came - “, so what happened next? :thumbsup

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Sakkarin » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:01 pm

"as it came" - That was it - maybe I could have said "as it flopped, straight out of the bowl", as in the "shaping" pic, the amount I handled it to tease it into the final rectangular shape was minimal.

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Re: Fresh Yeast v Dried Yeast

Postby Gillthepainter » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:25 pm

That's a lovely loaf Dennis. I never really mind what the shape is to be honest.

Although I think the R. Bertinet slapping on the counter method is great for creating tightness & structure to the dough.
I think you're a fan, Sakkarin.

I made these using the overnight method for 800g of flour yesterday. And kneaded using the RB method.
It gets lots of air into the mix:

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The dough held up really well, although the ciabatta shaped log stuck to the towel so it's misshapen. Just shaped using a very tight fold

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And the buns had a airy light crumb for it - for a sourdough that's not bad

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Have a go at that, Dennis.

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